Argille Azzurre, double interview
Barbara De Ponti / Paolo Zambianchi da Confinis
project curated by Marco Tagliafierro
Barbara De Ponti / Paolo Zambianchi da Confinis
project curated by Marco Tagliafierro
Is it really true that Geology is the most romantic of sciences?
Can earth sciences contemplate fusion with humanistic contexts?If we are our encounters, can our relationships prove germinative?
These are some of the questions that this discussion on the boundary poses in order to identify new possibilities for the management of an interdisciplinary archive.
BDP – You are a geologist: my view of Geology places it as the most romantic of sciences. Have I formed this opinion considering the very broad scope of your knowledge, which also includes knowledge of the humanities, or perhaps I am more influenced by your personal background, which includes classical studies?
PAZ – The geologist has a degree in earth sciences, a discipline that includes all the elements and processes that make up our planet, and not only, such as rocks, soil, atmosphere and water. It is only after the state examination that those who decide to become geologists use the specific elements of geology applied to engineering in the field, starting with a basic background in physics, chemistry and mathematics. Thus a complex set of scientific data to be considered simultaneously. The multidisciplinary nature of this 'young' science has not allowed it, except in recent times thanks also to the development of new technologies, to succeed in explaining some of the earth's main phenomena and mechanisms through models and formulae. Before, one 'limited' oneself to careful observations of natural processes trying to romantically guess some of their mechanisms. Even today, in the collective imagination, the work of the geologist-type is more akin to the fascinating experiences Darwin had in the early 1800s, reaching exotic destinations on adventurous journeys or, on the other hand, to a mythological figure somewhere between a shaman and a diviner. Knowing your work, I was intrigued to find an artistic practice that includes the collaboration of professionals from various fields, often scientific, creating germinating relationships.
BDP – We are our meetings. Philosophy, sociology, and nowadays even marketing studies (this is to show how concrete this statement is), have spoken on this subject and mine is a deep conviction that I try to apply as much as possible in my work and private life, often intertwining them. This is how the projects of the last few years have come about. Professional collaborations and social relations combined with historical and scientific studies, including at archival fonds. The time had come to tackle the geological one. How would you describe a geological archive?
PAZ – Each piece of land constitutes a geological archive, like a language that stratifies over time, in which universally codified information is condensed to allow the geochronology, polarity and bio-zones to be read.
"Each piece of land constitutes a
geological archive,
like a language stratified over time..."
When you chose the Faenza context for your Clay Time Code project, it was necessary to collaborate with palaeontologist Dr Luca Santucci to investigate the indigenous Argille Azzurre. What made you choose to work in Faenza with ceramics if you are not a ceramist?
BDP – Art has always been interested in questions of the nature of time. I was reflecting on the fact that one can create a work with modelled clay from a material that was formed around 4.5 million years ago.
"I was reflecting on the fact that with modelled clay you can create a work with a material that was formed around 4.5 million years ago."
Faenza, known as one of the world capitals of ceramics, would not be Faenza without this raw material. I am used to hearing about geological topics as I have among our closest friends a host of professionals in the field and this was an opportunity to work with them as well as with you. I spoke with Dr Luca Santucci who gave me a lot of food for thought. It struck me how in geology, images of fossils, nannofossil markers, or rather their icons, are often used as indirect tools to date time. Geological time, the very long, very deep time of Kronos, the mythological titan son of the union between Gaea, the Earth, and Uranus, the starry sky, the fertile firmament. Here is the return of classical culture associated with geology. As a professional, what relationship do you find between your science and time?
PAZ – The contribution that geology, the modern systematic study of the earth sciences, has made to human understanding has been to widen the time scale of reference: scientifically, it is no longer linked to the relationship with the time of a man's life; the approximately four thousand five hundred million years by which the age of the Earth is estimated, for example, make us understand this. So man is no longer the yardstick, but it is still he who studies and chooses the language to communicate the results of that study. It seems to me that both concepts are addressed in Clay Time Code.
BDP – I quote the art historian Alessandro Castiglioni in the conversation he had with you and which complements the research exhibited in the Museo Carlo Zauli in Faenza: "There is a sort of competition in the construction of the content, given partly by us who look at the work and partly by the motivations with which the work was created; this project was created to stimulate a reflection on what we can say about time and how much these tiny, ancient and extinct organisms can say about us.
"There is a kind of competition in the construction of the content, given partly by us looking at the work and partly by the motivations behind the work; this project was created to stimulate a reflection on what we can say about time and what these tiny, ancient and extinct organisms can say about us"..
Together with the palaeontologist, we selected an extinct single-celled foraminifer the Globorotalia Puncticulata and a planktonic alga the Gephyrocapsa Oceanica. Through their images taken with the scanning microscope, I was able to reproduce three-dimensionally the organisms that determine the beginning and end of the geological period in which the clays were sedimented, and to do so using the clays themselves that contain them. Sculptures of more than a metre have become large simulacra of microscopic organisms. It is always the human mind that raises questions about the outside itself, but the suggestion I would like to get from this work is to limit anthropocentrism.
"It is always the human mind that asks questions about the outside itself but the suggestion I would like to get from this work is to limit anthropocentrism."
The work addresses absolute questions; it was also the basis for a dialogue on the value of form with artist Jens Risch in an exhibition promoted and organised by Galleria Viasaterna in Milan.
PAZ – The marker fossils you have chosen correlate with absolute chronological time in the environment where these fossils lived and were preserved. It is no coincidence that an exhibition venue for the project was the Malmerendi Museum of Natural Sciences in Faenza. Specifically, its collection of fossils from the local gullies is a true time machine that tells the story of the ancient and marine nature of these organisms. The museum preserves and still collects evidence of the Plio-Pleistocene sea that covered the territory, whose seabed, after tectonic evolutions, was observed and described by Leonardo da Vinci in the early 16th century with the term still used today, Argille Azzurre, as stated in the Leichester codex. The relationship with the territory was also tightened thanks to the conference organised at the same time by the Anepla association and the Order of Geologists of Emilia Romagna entitled Argille a resource between art and territory, hosted by the International Ceramics Museum. The topics covered were strongly intertwined with what was proposed by Clay Time Code, which shows how much the experience of art can spill over into our everyday experience by breaking out of codified linguistic structures. And then we have valuable new friendships.
BDP – They are the amazing ceramists who allowed our ideas to materialise into objects of great technical difficulty and beauty, Aida Bertozzi and Ceramiche Sottosasso of Lorella Morgantini and Marco Malavolti. In a very professional way they married the intentions of the project and then adopted us as well.
"They are the amazing ceramists who allowed our ideas to materialise into objects of great technical difficulty and beautiful Aida Bertozzi and Ceramiche Sottosasso di Lorella Morgantini e Marco Malavolti. In a very professional way they married the intentions of the project and then adopted us as well."
BDP – I quote the art historian Alessandro Castiglioni in the conversation he had with you and which complements the research exhibited in the Museo Carlo Zauli in Faenza: "There is a sort of competition in the construction of the content, given partly by us who look at the work and partly by the motivations with which the work was created; this project was created to stimulate a reflection on what we can say about time and how much these tiny, ancient and extinct organisms can say about us.
"There is a kind of competition in the construction of the content, given partly by us looking at the work and partly by the motivations behind the work; this project was created to stimulate a reflection on what we can say about time and what these tiny, ancient and extinct organisms can say about us"..
Together with the palaeontologist, we selected an extinct single-celled foraminifer the Globorotalia Puncticulata and a planktonic alga the Gephyrocapsa Oceanica. Through their images taken with the scanning microscope, I was able to reproduce three-dimensionally the organisms that determine the beginning and end of the geological period in which the clays were sedimented, and to do so using the clays themselves that contain them. Sculptures of more than a metre have become large simulacra of microscopic organisms. It is always the human mind that raises questions about the outside itself, but the suggestion I would like to get from this work is to limit anthropocentrism.
"It is always the human mind that asks questions about the outside itself but the suggestion I would like to get from this work is to limit anthropocentrism."
The work addresses absolute questions; it was also the basis for a dialogue on the value of form with artist Jens Risch in an exhibition promoted and organised by Galleria Viasaterna in Milan.
PAZ – The marker fossils you have chosen correlate with absolute chronological time in the environment where these fossils lived and were preserved. It is no coincidence that an exhibition venue for the project was the Malmerendi Museum of Natural Sciences in Faenza. Specifically, its collection of fossils from the local gullies is a true time machine that tells the story of the ancient and marine nature of these organisms. The museum preserves and still collects evidence of the Plio-Pleistocene sea that covered the territory, whose seabed, after tectonic evolutions, was observed and described by Leonardo da Vinci in the early 16th century with the term still used today, Argille Azzurre, as stated in the Leichester codex. The relationship with the territory was also tightened thanks to the conference organised at the same time by the Anepla association and the Order of Geologists of Emilia Romagna entitled Argille a resource between art and territory, hosted by the International Ceramics Museum. The topics covered were strongly intertwined with what was proposed by Clay Time Code, which shows how much the experience of art can spill over into our everyday experience by breaking out of codified linguistic structures. And then we have valuable new friendships.
BDP – They are the amazing ceramists who allowed our ideas to materialise into objects of great technical difficulty and beauty, Aida Bertozzi and Ceramiche Sottosasso of Lorella Morgantini and Marco Malavolti. In a very professional way they married the intentions of the project and then adopted us as well.
"They are the amazing ceramists who allowed our ideas to materialise into objects of great technical difficulty and beautiful Aida Bertozzi and Ceramiche Sottosasso di Lorella Morgantini e Marco Malavolti. In a very professional way they married the intentions of the project and then adopted us as well."